MacBeth lolmac wrote in bethinexile
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ZOMG Florida!!!
First same-sex marriages, this afternoon.  (One of the couples are friends of mine, and just the sweetest people!!)

12:01 am, Missy and I are officially recognized as married by the State of Florida, for what that's worth . . . but much more important, other couple can marry, here, without having to go to a different state.  I would have wanted to get married in Washington state in any case, but for many others, this is home.  It's where their hearts are.

They'll start issuing marriage licenses in some locations at 12:01, and mass weddings go off at 3 am!!  Sweet dreams for everyone tonight.  I can hardly believe it!

I have been watching this news progress and thinking of you two. Congratulations to Florida, finally! And congratulations on one less piece of legal inconsistency about your life! Rooting for the Supreme Court to have to do something Federal soon, but meanwhile the states keep popping along.

I'm not looking for any SCOTUS actions again for some time to come; I think they've firmly tossed the ball back for the time being, with every expectation that it will be bashed around thoroughly.

I was under the impression that the ornery ruling by the 6th circuit was going to toss it right back to the Supremes. Either way, I think the progress is going to be hard to stop! It is my fond hope that this tide will lead to gains in other anti-discriminatory legislation in many states. I'd invite everyone to come live in MA but it's going to be -19 celsius on Thursday so...

(Ooh. Maybe more fed news soon:

Yay! I love being proved wrong, at least about things like this!

That is beyond wonderful to hear. Congratulations to all of the happy couples.


BTW, did you see the fill for your prompt in the 12 characters meme? Should I apologise for the cucumbers?

I am so happy that this is happening! Hurrah!

Woooo hoooo! :)

Happy Marriage Recognition Day to you and Missy! So happy for you, and for all the Florida couples who now have the right to marry, and have their marriage recognized, in their home state.

Congratulations! I see it's 36 states now. The rest will catch up eventually. Can't they make a law for the whole of US and be done with it?

(always happy for an excuse to post that icon)

Can't they make a law for the whole of US and be done with it?

Sigh. It's a messy system, but it has its benefits. One of those is that they weren't able to make a law for the whole US that banned gay marriage wholesale. Since we had a herd of fifty sets of little laws, we were able to pick them off in bits, starting with the stragglers.

Part of this is history, and part of it is scale. Changing the law in Germany requires working with a population that's about equal to two of the biggest states in the US -- say, California and New York (both of which legalized gay marriage, but only after some major struggles). But the entire US is almost as large, in terms of population, as the whole EU. Getting a single law for that large a population is a hell of a lot more difficult (unless you have a dictatorship -- see Russia, where I'm basically an instant felon). There are member nations in the EU that would still prefer gays to be shot rather than married, just as there are states in the US where the majority still feels the same way.

Even in Florida, the northern part of the state (where our lawmakers all live) is asshole redneck country. Several of the county clerks there, rather than perform marriages when it was now legal, shut down the chapels in their courthouses and refused to perform any marriages at all, for anyone. (Not that I would want my marriage officiated by an asshole -- I doubt anyone would have asked!)

Can it be changed again though? I mean, in California, first they had it, then somebody didn't like it and it got taken away, and then they had it again? So whichever party it is that is the leader at the moment, it gets changed back and forward? Do you need to be afraid of this right being taken away again one day?

We do have some different laws in different states as well in Germany. There are 16 states. Each one, for example, has different school standards. So when you move from one to the next, it happens that the kids need to learn different things and buy new books. It also happens that in some states it is easier to gain the abitur while in others it is harder. I think it should be the same everywhere, as it is unfair otherwise. They try to change that at the moment to have at least three or so states have the exact same questions for the abitur.

Oh, "unfair". Such a loaded term.

Do you need to be afraid of this right being taken away again one day?

We all have to be aware of that risk for every right, including our right as women to be regarded as human beings, and our right as human beings to live and own property.

So whichever party it is that is the leader at the moment, it gets changed back and forward?

A big part of why we have this insane complicated system, and why we still have it after almost two and a half centuries, is that it's too cumbersome for a simple change like a party shift to screw everything up in short order. Anything and everything can get screwed up, as you know: we had slavery followed by horrible racist laws, Spain had the Inquisition, you had Nazis, France has more anti-Muslim laws every time you turn around, most of Africa has legislated homophobia, Saudi Arabia still won't let women drive cars. When you have a system in which a major change can be easily implemented, that ease will come back to bite you in the ass.

This is a favourite quote of mine, from the play A Man for All Seasons:

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law?

Sir Thomas More: What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

William Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that.

Sir Thomas More: And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you -- where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?
If you cut them down -- and you're just the man to do it --
do you really think you could stand upright
in the winds that would blow then?
Yes, I give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.

That is a great quote and I understand what you are saying, really. But still it does not feel right to me that Nazis from all over Germany have the right to march through my city while the people that don't want them here and try to stand in their way and block their parade, get then a trial because apparently it is forbidden to do so...

As for equality, if I go back to my school comparison. Before the war, only kids from rich people could go to university, no matter how dumb, and kids from poor workers no matter how bright could not, because they did not have the money.

Then in GDR times it got changed that the university was free for everyone, and it should not matter how poor or rich they were. Great! I agree with that! But what I didn't know at the time and still have a hard time believing but it must be true because I keep reading about it - that the kids that did not belong to the working class were now forbidden to go to university simply because they had the wrong parents. That is still racism, only the other way round. It's not the kid's fault that their father is a professor.

Just found this old message in my inbox...

But see, I was on the right track already back then! I am psychic! LOL


Yay! Told you I did. Come to everyone, this will.

That is so, so marvelous!! And long damned overdue!!

*hugs you hard!*

\o/ Congrats on marriage recognition to you and your friends:D

The dominos keep falling over... :-)

YAY!!! :D

I truly wish the both of you nothing but the greatest happiness!

The first moment I heard this, I thought of you, at last, legal and recognized in the state that spawned Anita Bryant!

The triumph of love over hate and narrow mindedness. It is a sweet thing to see. My heart is overflowing.

we've come a long way, baby

A couple of weeks ago, we met with a guy who's going to be overseeing the installation of our new front door.

He sat on our couch and, in between discussing door hardware and such, told us a lovely story about his brother, who had worked at a very trendy restaurant in Miami Beach back in the day. Anita Bryant came in to the restaurant . . . and the brother threw her out.

Politely. Very politely. But he refused to serve her or allow her to remain in the restaurant. We cheered.

w00t w00t! I would have said congrats but you've been married for a while! So demi-congrats :D

...Although does this mean your marriage was not recognised by the state of Florida until now? WTF.... I mean, internationally there's treaties and stuff, that stuff doesn't work within the US?

Edited at 2015-01-07 08:04 (UTC)

Hah, talk about a fucked-up situation (if you'll excuse my terminology)! The US Constitution is supposed to require that any contract -- including a marriage -- that's recognized by one state must be recognized by all. But there's also an out where something legalized by one state (such as driving over 65 mph in certain locations) is not thereby made legal in all states. The douchebags have been applying this to same-sex marriage since it first existed, which is a crock, but it's how the world has wagged.

This also meant that a same-sex couple who married in another country were not legally recognized as married in the US, even if they were citizens of the other country. VERY fucked-up.

Our legal marriage, in the state of Washington, was recognized by the county in Florida where we live, and also the county where I work. It was recognized by the federal government for tax purposes, by my employers, by Missy's employers (for pension and health insurance etc.), by the insurance company and a slew of other companies, such as the firm where I have my retirement accounts.

It was not legally recognized by the state of Florida itself, which is divided between a liberal south, where most of the businesses and money and younger population is located, and a hideously conservative right-wing north, where the politicians and the state government and the political power are all entrenched. Basically, north Florida is part of the US Deep South -- racist, hidebound, sexist, homophobic, etc., and clinging to power by any means possible (gerrymanding, general corruption, obscene amounts of cash) in the face of demographics.

And, of course, the governor and the state attorney general are both members of that group.

The recognition issue would have had an impact if we'd retired and wanted to collect Social Security (a federal program administered by the states), if one of us had died, if we had kids, if we lived elsewhere in the state, or if we wanted a divorce. None of these were true, but there are thousands of couples for whom the distinction is critical.

The dominos are falling faster now partly because the situation is literally untenable. I can tell, just by reading the interim regulations, that there are some pissed-off people at the federal level because a program that's supposed to be consistent has been blocked at the local level. They are practically slavering to see it past that hump.

This is so incredibly ridiculous. I honestly can't see how something that's recognised on a federal level isn't recognised on a local level, that's just fucking insane.

Well, WAS fucking insane, at least the sex-same marriage bit! Racist, sexist, homophobic etc Conservatives in general are a bit harder to defeat I guess :(

It's still fucking insane in 24 of our states, but there are now legal challenges in every one of them. I spent a few minutes staring in astonishment at the newest version of the Right-to-Marry map -- it's still hard to believe how far we've come in such a short time!



Oh awesome! Congratulations! And YAY what a major breakthrough this is!


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